Curiosity Over Control: How Jesus Transforms Conversations – 7/6/25

We’re in the midst of Wisdomfest, week three. Just as a recap, Peter—in the first week—helped us understand how trusting in God rather than man enables us to grow in relational wisdom. Last week, Matt skillfully led us into understanding how humility is really the cornerstone for how to listen well.

I have three questions to begin our morning for you.

One, are there any conversations in your life right now that you keep avoiding? Not because they’re not important or don’t matter, but because they are messy or they’re difficult, or they just cause noise in your life.

Second question, do you find yourself stuck, unsure how to speak up without saying too much, or how to stay present when things get uncomfortable?

Third question, what if a fresh perspective from Jesus and some relational tools could give you the freedom to show up differently in these hard conversations?

I have some hope to offer you for today. Jesus wants to form in us a beautiful, redemptive, life-giving community through these kinds of conversations and not in spite of them. Jesus wants to form in us a beautiful, redemptive, life-giving community, actually through these kinds of conversations and not in spite of them. But first, I have a story that I’d like to share, so grab your coffee, cozy up with your church blanket, because it’s now story time with Antone.

Exhibit 1: behind me you’ll see the two newest members of our family. This is Lola and Chloe. They’re sisters, six months old. For those of you who did the “aww” kind of thing, that’s exactly what they want you to do. It’s part of their plan because then, when you feel loving and get close to them, they put body punctures on you with their sharp little teeth. Then you wake up one day with a sock missing from your drawer that you swore was there last night. And yes, they are loving and cute, but those words don’t help support my story this morning that I’m going to tell, so I’m going to leave those out.

I like to get up early in the morning. It’s my time with God. I take a walk, listen to Scripture, I pray — it’s quiet and peaceful. Chloe and Lola like to also get up early, and they like to make a joyful noise before the Lord every morning when they get up. So I found myself in this state of tension and noise of like trying to be in God’s Word, but also realizing like, “Wow, Jesus, I’m having trouble focusing on you right now.” That was stirring in my heart. I’m like, “Do I talk to Stef about it? Or— nah, I just need to suck it up. You know what, this is part of having pets, having puppies. I just need to deal with this internally.”

One Saturday morning, we’re talking at breakfast, Stef and I. I wasn’t planning to bring the dog conversation up, but dogs started to come into the conversation, and my flesh was like, “Now, now. This is the chance, this is the chance.” So I started making mention of my noise within my own soul. I could feel the emotions of my flesh rising up, and the conversation spiraled downhill very quickly, with me frustrated, my wife in tears. On that Saturday morning, I had checked off my first task for the day: digging a very deep hole.

I had to realize that the issue before me was not Lola and Chloe. The issue is that I did not bring Jesus into this conversation and kind of just went rogue on my own. The second problem why this conversation went sideways so fast is because I chose to ignore certain social skills that would have helped the conversation be productive and life-giving.

It led to a good conversation for Stef and I. It led to a conversation of her using the term “idolatry,” which was very hard to hear, but after listening to the Spirit, I realized, “You know what, I’ve taken something good and I’ve made it something I own.” It was a good conversion for us. The Lord redeemed that conversation, but it made me ask this question: Why did that conversation go sideways so quickly and just spiral out of control and cause so much damage in my relationship with my wife, Stefanie?

Our goal this morning is to answer this question:
How do I skillfully approach others in a conversation to give the best opportunity for a gospel-centered outcome? Let me define what I mean by “gospel-centered outcome.” I mean a conversation that ends where there’s more unity, peace, and redemption because of that conversation. That’s what I meant by gospel-centered outcome for a conversation.

You’re going to notice it centers around two words: curiosity and control. I chose these words because I think, in a simplistic way, they reflect our heart posture when we talk about the conversations that we’re going to work through today. Control seeks to direct, curiosity seeks to discover. Control seeks an outcome, curiosity seeks a connection.

Why is this important? I feel like we need to talk about why it is important to answer the question that I posed just a minute ago, because when conversations get uncomfortable for us, my reflex is to protect myself. I do that by silence, by control, by retreating, and I end up hurting others that I love deeply. What I really need isn’t simply better techniques. I need Jesus to form in me what I don’t have on my own.

Here’s our format today: three, two, and one. Three, we’re going to talk about three types of conversations this morning. The first: how to lean into conflict with humility. Number two, how to navigate awkward moments with courage. And three, how to engage across differences with grace when people have a different opinion than you do.

I chose these three because I struggle with these. I’m wrestling through these in some capacity right now, and I think they’re familiar to the group in here. I’ve talked to various people. I think these are just down-home familiar conversations that may be causing you noise right now in your own soul.

For each of the three types of conversations, I also want to introduce two scripture passages for each of those conversations to transform us by changing the way we think (like Romans 12 helps us understand).

Then, for each of the three types of conversations (and two passages of scripture), I’m going to leave you with one social skill, a tool that you can use today in your conversations that are conflict, awkward, or where somebody has a differing opinion than you.

Let’s talk about the first, how to lean into the conflict with humility. Here’s the big idea that we’ll be looking at with this conversation: moving from defensiveness to gospel-driven dialogue.

The way that I think about defensiveness — Matt defined it for us last week, and I just want to add another perspective on how I think of defensiveness. It’s like my emotional body armor that I put on when I feel something that I value is not going to be protected. Because at the end of the day, I don’t want to feel vulnerable. I don’t want to feel uncomfortable. I don’t want to feel misunderstood, exposed, so I bring my defensive armor up in order to self-protect.

I want to look at two key scriptures to help us understand. If you have conflict in a relationship right now, here’s some scripture, some truth that will help you understand why things can go wrong. The first reason is that we do not have the right blueprint for success. I’ll read from Philippians 2:3-4, which was read this morning.

“Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not to his own interests, but also to the interests of others” (Philippians 2:3-4).

A few thoughts on this: the word “selfish ambition” means a desire to put myself forward. That is selfish ambition. That shows up in conflict all the time. “Conceit,” that Paul talks about, is a groundless self-esteem. It’s an empty pride. Our conflict is going to go very badly when we ignore these two things: we put ourselves forward and we have an empty pride. It’s one of the reasons why our conflict goes so badly. What we end up doing, which is wrong, is we blame God: “Why didn’t you take care of this?” Or we blame others, like, “Why don’t you get my point? I thought that was super clear.” We end up missing the change that God wants to bring to us through Jesus Christ.

The next word in that passage is “in humility.” It’s a deep sense of my own littleness. When I’m in conflict, I want to lift myself up. Paul says in humility, in a deep sense of your own littleness, let the interests of others be more important than your own interests. What that last phrase means is that we must not be self-preserving, but we must be others-aware.

The conclusion from Philippians is that we’re given a gospel blueprint of how to step into conflict, not to win, but to love. In the example that I gave with my wife, the issue is that I came into the conversation with my own blueprint of how I wanted things to look, what I wanted to emphasize, and what I wanted acknowledged. I chose to be self-preserving in my relationship with me, and I made the conversation about something that it was not.

The second reason to understand why we fail in how we handle conflict is that we just don’t use the right body armor. Paul encourages us in Colossians 3:12-14, a beautiful passage.

“Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony” (Colossians 3:12-14).

When Paul says to “put on,” he literally means to sink into the clothing of Jesus. Like, I’m putting on the clothing of Christ rather than my own robes of righteousness.

What if you sank into the clothing of Jesus before your next conversation that might have some conflict to deal with? What if you stepped into that conversation with a heart of compassion or with kindness? Or humility. That term “bearing with one another,” think of it like I pre-saturate myself with grace before I go into the conversation. That’s a beautiful picture. I’m already thinking ahead, not what I’m going to say, but how I’m going to pre-saturate my life with grace before I go into that conversation. That word also means “mental calmness” or “composure.” What if this were the type of clothing that we put on as a church body with each other in our homes, with each other at our workplaces?

Our conclusion from Colossians is that these verses offer a type of spiritual wardrobe, the essential clothing that we need to put on when our relationships do not feel whole and they feel strained.

In my example, with the conversation with my wife, I sank into my own clothing, and it made for a really bad conversation with my wife. I hurt her, and she’s in tears, and I’m like, “Whoa. This has descended to a level I was not anticipating.” But it’s because I did not sink into the clothing of Jesus before that conversation.

Why must we lean into the conflict with humility? Because humility that comes through abiding in Jesus makes space for God’s work. Why? Because I don’t have to win, I’m free to love well. Since I don’t have to win (winning is the control that I want in a conflict), I’m free to love well. That’s the curiosity of connection rather than my own agenda.

I’d like to present a tool to you. If you were at our LEAD Class in October, I presented this briefly, but I thought I’d present it to the whole church body. It’s a great heart posture. If you have a conflict with somebody, this will help answer the question: What’s the heart posture I need to go into this conversation?

I call it OIC. It’s an acronym. It came from a group that I work with called 11-6. I wanted to share this tool this morning. So here’s our scenario: a family member or friend has a body posture that makes you think something is wrong (arms always crossed, they don’t make eye contact with you, or they roll their eyes). Something is going on. That’s our scenario. O is observe, I is interpret, C is clarify. Okay, we’re just going to walk through each of those as part of this tool.

Observe: I just give the facts. No emotion attached to this at the start. I’m just giving the facts. Straightforward, non-threatening. Here’s some questions that would go along with observation. “Hey, would you allow me to make an observation about something here?” Or, “Would you mind if I offered a thought on the situation?” “Can I share something that I’ve been noticing between us?” “Would you be open to me sharing a quick thought?” All of these are good questions because they ask, “Can I have permission to step into your story?”

Interpret: I give my opinion of what happened, but I also give the benefit of the doubt. So that may look like this: “Hey, when you did that, that makes me think…” Fill in the blank, “but I realize I may not have all the correct insight. It may not’ve been your intent.” Okay, that’s the “I” of OIC, interpret. I give my opinion, but I’m also admitting the fact that I may not have all the information.

Clarify: I make their voice important. I move from a conversation of accusation to just a conversation. I move from accusation to just conversation. Here’s a question you might ask in making their voice important: “Can you clarify for me what’s true?” Or, “Can you help me understand what’s really going on here?” “What was your intent on this?”

Let me walk through the scenario that I just mentioned, just a quick run-through of OIC:

“Hey, I’ve noticed that the last few times we’ve been together, you’re not making eye contact, your answers are very short. It just makes me feel uncomfortable. It makes me feel like our last conversation about conflict really wasn’t resolved and there’s still something going on. I realize that I don’t have all the information. Maybe something’s going on that I don’t know about. Or maybe I’m just misreading the conversation. Would you mind clarifying for me what I’m experiencing so that we can be good?”

Notice the conversation. It just flows from asking a question to insert myself. I say how I feel, but I also give the benefit of the doubt. Then I ask for them to speak into it. It’s a beautiful way to model the gospel in a conversation of conflict.

The second conversation: how to navigate awkward moments with courage. Think of an awkward moment like relational hesitation. We’ve all been in awkward moments and we just kind of stop. We hesitate because it feels uncomfortable, and it can end up costing us a connection with that person by not pressing through that.

Here’s the big idea with this type of conversation: choosing presence over polish in the messiness of real connection. I want to be polished in what I say, but when I don’t and it feels uncomfortable, I often end up just retreating from the conversation.

What do I mean by awkward? It’s that uncomfortable space between our desire to connect and our fear of getting it wrong. The moment of time I want to connect with the person, but I’m just uncomfortable with how it’s going to go. Here’s some examples:

You know someone who’s grieving over a loss in their life, and you want to connect, but you’re just not sure how to. It feels uncomfortable, so you just kind of retreat. Another example: I bump into someone with whom I’ve had some tension in the past, and maybe it’s not resolved yet, and I see them. I want to brush it off and just keep moving on. Awkward. Or someone shares something with me that’s really personal and vulnerable. It’s like, “Whoa, I was not expecting that. Why did they share that with me?” I feel awkward.

Two key scriptures for how we must press through an awkward conversation according to what truth tells us. Romans 12:10 and 15, I’m gonna pair them together. Paul says,

“Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep” (Romans 12:10, 15).

“Outdo” means to go before and show the way, like I’m going to model how to show honor by the way I’m honoring you.

What does it mean to rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep in terms of an awkward conversation? It’s a freedom to step into their story. I don’t let them be an outsider or feel intrusive. I’m feeling with them. When someone is celebrating, I can join their story of joy, even when my life is not feeling super joyful right now. That can feel awkward, but Romans 12 can help press us through that. When someone is grieving, I can enter their story of sorrow, not with solutions, but with shared presence.

The conclusion from Romans 12 is that love is rarely tidy or polished, but it frees me to love past that hesitation and to go into their story. Awkward moments, friends, are not signs that we’re doing something wrong. Awkward moments are often the sign that we are getting to something that actually matters, but my uncomfortableness keeps me from pressing through it.

Why must we navigate awkward moments with courage? Because courage that comes through abiding in Jesus offers us the freedom to stay present and loving rather than retreating or managing the moment for my own comfort. So we see the two words there, I have the freedom to stay present and loving, that’s the curiosity of connection. “Rather than retreating or managing the moment for my own comfort,” that’s the control because I feel uncomfortable.

Let me give you a tool that you may think, “How does this apply?” It’s the tool of hospitality. Hospitality is not just hosting people in your own home. It’s hosting people in your presence. I want to share a definition with you: Hospitality is the generous, self-giving welcome of others as an overflow of God’s welcome to me in Christ. Hospitality is the generous, self-giving welcome of others as an overflow of God’s welcome to me and Christ.

A beautiful passage that helps us understand what this means comes from Ephesians 2:12-13.

“Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.”

The conclusion from this passage in Ephesians is: the reason that I can lean into awkward moments with courage is because Jesus courageously leaned into my situation all the way, to pull me in when I was an outcast. Anything that we are commanded to do can always be seen in the person of Jesus. He leaned all the way in towards me when I was a stranger, when I was an outsider.

Here are some ideas to help bridge an awkward conversation: In my 41 years that I’ve known my wife (36 being married), one of her gifts/traits that has transformed my own thinking probably the most in our marriage is her gift of hospitality. My wife has an amazing way of bringing someone into our home and making them feel like they belong, like they’re family, and be comfortable. I’ve seen what a gift that is, and it is transforming my thinking of what it means to bring in the outsider, to make others feel comfortable.

Here are some ideas: In an awkward conversation, show up with a plate of cookies or a dinner. That object in your hand often becomes the piece of conversation that gets you across to the other side. “Hey, I was thinking of you and I made this for you.” Doesn’t have to be a whole conversation, but it’s just a way to bridge that awkwardness.

Be comfortable with silence. We live in a noisy world, it’s hard to be silent. Be comfortable with it, and just be present. Maybe it’s a statement, “Hey, it’s okay if this feels a little messy, but I’m glad we’re talking.” Or, “I don’t have the perfect words, but I care and I’m here.”

Something my dad taught me as I watched him is, somebody would share something, and in that moment, he would put his hand on their shoulder and he would just pray with them. Prayer with another brother or sister in Christ in an awkward moment just melts it because you’re both coming to Jesus with something. I’m finding in my own life just to reach out and say, “Hey, I’m just going to pray over you for a moment. ”

The third type of conversation: how to engage across differences with grace. Our big idea here is seeing the other through the lens of grace rather than sameness. Sameness feels safe. I like people who think like I do, who agree with my opinions, and support my ideas. Sameness feels safe.

Two key scriptures for how we can successfully engage those who think differently from us: Colossians 4:6 says,

“Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.”

Gracious, seasoned speech actually gives us the discernment on how to continue a conversation with somebody and keep it moving forward. That word “grace” in Colossians 4 is “that which affords a sweetness or a charm.” “Seasoned with salt:” Salt has many good properties, but one that we can apply to the awkward conversation: when I put salt on meat, it takes the amazing flavors of the meat and just accentuates them. Things get more tasty as you put salt in them. We’re to be like that salt that draws people in to want to keep listening, and to keep speaking, keep that conversation moving forward. Those words, “seasoned with grace,” they don’t just make a point, they actually make a connection, which is what we’re going for.

James 3:17 is our other passage,

“But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.”

Wisdom is what’s necessary for godly and right living. That word “peaceable” means you’re bringing peace into the conversation. Then I love the term “open to reason.” It means “a willingness to listen.” It means you are approachable, gentle, not stubborn, not defensive. It means you create space for the other person instead of taking up the space. True wisdom shows up in how we handle the differences with those that we come in contact with, with grace that listens and invites and makes peace.

Why must we engage across differences with grace? Grace that comes through abiding in Jesus quiets my ego, softens my heart, and helps me love and listen to people more than being right. The loving and listening, that’s the curiosity of connection. The being right, that’s control in a conversation.

A tool that I’d like to offer that is helpful is asking thoughtful questions, questions that make space instead of take space. Here are a few examples (there are many more): “Hey, can you tell me more about how you came to see it that way?” “What experiences have most shaped you’re thinking on that topic?” “What feels most important to you about your viewpoint?” “What do you feel people often misunderstand about your perspective?” All of these are questions of curiosity rather than control.

If I could offer a pro tip here, I know these things from experience: When you’re in a conversation of conflict or trying to jump across the divide of an awkward conversation, or you have one where you have differing opinions— I just want to put this out there, you can consider it, see if it’s important or not. But when those conversations exist, consider not communicating electronically in those types of conversations (text, email, social media). What ends up happening is, I receive a text from somebody, and I’m assuming that the motive in which I’m interpreting it is the motive in which they’re sending it. Oftentimes it’s not. Just a tip to consider as you engage in these types of conversations. You want to use the best tool to create the best outcome.

Finally, if you struggle with any of these conversations—you’re like, “Man, they just are really creating noise in my life. I can think of the person, the conversation…”—I would be remiss to not remind us how change actually happens in a believer’s life. So let me offer some statements that we’ve all used, but I think would be reflective of something counter to what Jesus offers us.

You might say, “I really need to work on my patience.” Or, “I need to be more humble in conflict.” “Next time, I’ll keep my emotions in check.” “I’ll try harder to enter the other person’s story, even if it’s awkward.” “I’ll work hard at being more receptive to other people’s differing ideas.” “Man, I’ve just got to stop letting people get to me.”

I’ve used all of those in some shape or form. The problem with those is, when we use those and things don’t change in our life the way we wanted to, we end up viewing God with a skeptical eye because we think he’s just not interested in our change. It’s part of the reason why people deconstruct their faith, God is just not measuring up to what I thought he would do. We get discouraged when the truth is that these are not the means by which Jesus actually wants to change us, like Romans 12 says. Romans 12 says that God wants to transform us in every way by changing the way that we think.

I’d like to close with John 15, four different verses. I’m giving these verses to ask this question: If you’re a believer in Jesus and the gospel, do you know practically and daily what it means to abide in Jesus? It’s kind of an odd term. We don’t really use it with regard to other people. But do you know what it means to abide in Jesus? Because if you don’t, these conversations will continue to go sideways for you.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser” (John 15:1).

“Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing” (John 15:4-5).

“These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full” (John 15:11).

Let’s be clear here: this is not metaphor Monday for Jesus. He’s not like, “Ah, I just need a sweet way to have an agricultural example with these guys because they’re just not getting my stuff again.” No, this is Jesus pulling in his closest friends and saying to them, “I want to share with you the family secret.” This is so critical to all that we’ve talked about this morning.

When Jesus says, “Apart from me, you can do nothing,” here’s your Greek word for the day: nothing is the Greek word oo-dice’. Ready for it? It means “nothing, not even one thing.” “Apart from me,” Jesus says, “you cannot do even one thing.” We’re pretty clear on that. There’s no special nuance meaning. Without me, you can do nothing. That’s such a statement of hope, my friends.

Then Jesus ends,

“I’ve said these things to you, so you can have joy.”

If you struggle to know what it means to abide in Jesus, really abide in Jesus— there’s a couple in our church we’re doing a book study with. It’s a Charles Stanley classic from I think the 90s, The Wonderful Spirit-Filled Life. He says this:

“The vine is Christ, I am the branch. The Holy Spirit is the sap that runs from the vine into the branch. The branch lives, grows, and bears fruit not by struggles and effort but simply by abiding. Branches were not designed to produce fruit— they were designed to have fruit produced through them” (Charles Stanley, The Wonderful Spirit-Filled Life).

As I thought on that quote, can I share something that I’m now doing that’s been helpful in the topic of abiding? So something goes awry at work and creates impatience within me. “Ugh, I’m right, they’re not.” I grow impatient. I’m learning now, instead of just saying, “Okay, I just need to be more patient,” I’m actually praying this: “Lord, I am super impatient right now, and you know that. But I want to obey, I do. So Holy Spirit, would you be the sap that flows from Jesus the vine into me as a branch to produce something in me that I can’t produce on my own? I need sap flowing through me, God, and I just don’t have it. Would you please do that? Would you graciously do that so I can be patient?” I’m finding that God is mercifully and graciously answering that prayer. It’s a prayer of dependence. I’m feeling the tension go away, and I’m feeling Spirit-filled patience replacing that.

Back to the beginning: why is this topic important that we’ve been discussing today? Because when conversations get uncomfortable or messy, my reflex is to protect myself with silence, control, or retreat. I end up hurting others that I love. But what I really need isn’t simply techniques. I need Jesus to form in me what I don’t have on my own. Can we say that as a church body, what’s on the screen there? What I really need isn’t simply techniques. I need Jesus to form in me what I do not have on my own. Isn’t that a relief?

If you’re struggling with this type of conversation, one of the three that we’ve talked about, we’ll have a team of people down front. I’d like to ask the worship team to go ahead and come out before I pray here, but if God’s moving in your heart, these are friends down here who want to help you cast your burden to God so that he can care for you. There’s hope, my friends. I want to offer that better path forward, and it starts with Jesus forming in you what you are not able to form on your own.

Father God, I’ve made a mess of conversations because I have my own agenda, my own blueprint, my own resources. Forgive me for that, Father. Work on our midst to produce a new joy in conversations because we are taking you into them. We’re clothing ourselves with you that you might give us joy and you might get glory. In Jesus’s name, amen.